American Buddhist Net

Dear Lineageholder & forum,

What if His Holiness the Dalai Lama wants to practice grow NOT in the way you think it would grow? It doesn't make sense to you Lineageholder, may be because you refuse to think the practice can grow with a ban. Dalai Lama has been giving Kalachakra initiation, but how many ATTAINED practitioners of Kalachakra are out there because he widely promote, endorse and give empowerments on this?

Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it is wrong. Let's see another point of view. Assuming Dalai Lama is really a Bodhisattva who take rebirth to benefit others, how would you know whether his actions will benefit people or not?

Look at Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, his actions were criticised in the past because people don't understand his unconventional behaviour, but look at his results in America- Naropa University, and he has made Tibetan Buddhism grow.

I have a simple question: Are you a enlightened? How sure are you that you are NOT the one with wrong view? This is an open forum, simply saying things doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong view.

Please don't say another person's view is nonsense just because you don't agree with it.

This is an interesting conundrum. If the Dalai Lama is an enlightened Being,

1. He will not have the karma to be harmed. Therefore, there is nothing to fear from a so-called 'spirit'.
2. He would be able to subdue a spirit so why doesn't he bind Dorje Shugden by oath like so many spirits have been subdued throughout the ages.
3. He would not have been 'mistaken' when he wrote the praise to Dorje Shugden, called 'Melody of an unceasing vajra'.

Now, i DO believe he is an enlightened Being - so how can he be so contradictory?

Read this article which addresses this issue very well - certainly points to ponder:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0

Happy Losar!

Hey Pathseeker,
yes, I've read this book and let me tell ya - it sure made me disheartened!

I had started reading it, thinking that it would give me a lot more information about the protector. I was excited to see something like this in print. The book set out some objectives, among which were “to liberate millions of innocent practitioners of the Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden and their families from suffering” and “to restore peace and harmony between Shugden and non-Shugden practitioners”.

I didn't see this accomplished anywhere in the book. There was a lot of information and it was very thoroughly researched with many good historical, media and analytical references. But it was written in such an inflammatory and aggressive manner. The whole book ended up being a bash-the-dalai-lama session rather than to foster greater harmony. It was like the entire point of writing this book was to defame the Dalai Lama, and bring him down. It would have been so much more credible if they just presented the facts accurately and objectively, rather than to fill it with so much rhetoric, conjectures and angry, hateful messages.

It made me think: these are people who are defending Dorje Shugden and the great lineage of Tsongkhapa? Why would you write such incendiary things against any lama then? Wouldn't it be better (like I say in my post above) to prove how great Dorje Shugden is by writing with greater kindness and compassion? Or by writing about the greatness of Dorje Shugden, rather than about how much you hate the Dalai Lama?

It make me feel that if I was a new person reading this book, I would think to myself, “Wow, the Dalai Lama camp seems pretty unspiritual… and the people on the DS camp writing this book also seem to be pretty unspiritual writing in this way!” It would create even more doubts in my mind about what Buddhism and Dharma is really about or even turn me away. How can this “liberate practitioners” or “restore peace and harmony between Shugden and non-shugden practitioners?”

I was quite disappointed with this book - not because of the book in itself but my expectation of it, which had been that it would promote Dorje Shugden practice. Like Path and Red, I thought the book was well compiled with a lot of research. Saying that however, i personally did not like the tone of the book which I considered emotive, biased and denigrating to HH the Dalai Lama.

I am a Shugden practitioner and I believe that the WSS who produced this book are also Shugden practitioners. Due to the Dalai Lama's ban on Shugden practice, I can understand the passion and angst the WSS and its supporters are feeling. However, I have read that Dorje Shugden has never spoken against the Dalai Lama and tells his practitioners not to do so either.

See http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0, which says:

Whenever Dorje Shugden takes trance in any of the oracles, he never criticizes the Dalai Lama and in fact tells the audience to always withhold criticism towards Dalai Lama. He can say nothing about the Dalai Lama and just keep quiet. Dorje Shugden is well known to not answer questions that has little meaning, insignificant, or unacceptable to the listener. When questions are presented to him through the oracle, he often skips through questions that should not be answered at this time or has no meaning.

I humbly would like to follow what my Protector says, otherwise there is no need to have him as my Protector.

Respectfully,
Kate

China sanctioned Panchen Lama is 19 years old now. He is taking on his role of Tibet ’s Highest Lama within Tibet/China more and more. The Chinese Government although saying they are Socialist and do not believe in any religion, still backs up the highest ranking lama within Tibet . Panchen Lama is endorsed by the Central Government of Beijing and all his expenses borne by them also. He has State ranking.

Whether we accept this as the authentic Panchen Lama or not is not the issue here. The Panchen Lama may have many emanations of we are to follow the scriptures. If he grows up to serve the proliferation of BuddhaDharma, then it will bring many people to Buddhism in China itself. China is supporting the practice and spread of Dorje Shugden’s lineage within China and Tibet itself. No one can stop that. Not the Dalai Lama, not his exile government, not the various scattered Dharma centers of the four schools of Buddhism throughout the world. Eventually their protests of Dorje Shugden will be tantamount to protesting against one of the policies of the Chinese Government. They will not take lightly to that.

Ironically the more the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Government in exile suppresses Dorje Shugden, it increases the Chinese government’s promotion of the practice. The Dalai Lama and Tibetan government cannot override, overwhelm, outspeak, have more influence in the world or have more influence over the Chinese government ever. If he can, Tibet would have been free already. He is already in his mid seventies and China is growing stronger. Whatever Nechung oracle has said through the Dalai Lama regarding independence has had zero effect. Zero results. NO INDEPENDENCE . NECHUNG HAS BEEN WRONG.

No matter how prestigious, well known the Dalai Lama is, he cannot court the world’s governments and people against China except for pockets of protests from time to time which are getting less and barely reported in the news. If the crackdown and brutality in Burma recently can be so easily forgotten, what is the Tibet issue in the eyes of the world? After all economics is the main concern.

So wouldn’t it be better that Dalai Lama/Tibetan government does not speak against Dorje Shugden anymore to further antagonize the Chinese government and their policies for the sake of the remaining 6 million Tibetans within Tibet? If he continues to speak, then with China ’s backing, Dorje Shugden will first spread in China ’s 1.2 billion populations. The Chinese will 100% believe that Dorje Shugden is beneficial. After all, who will they choose to believe? Their own Government who is opening the doors to economic free trade and creating wealthy citizens or the Dalai Lama?